Candidate Beck finally provides some answers
September 29th, 2009, 10:55 am · 53 Comments · posted by rlederman
Critics won’t agree with him. But Lima mayoral candidate Dan Beck finally is providing more than sound bites in his YouTube ad campaign. He actually is explaining how he would address what he sees as the city’s problems.
Of note, to me anyway, is his desire to reposition the city’s drug task force officers, doing the sensible thing and getting away from the nickel-and-dime drug busts that the Lima Police Department now seems to focus on, moving officers to community policing and, I’m assuming, larger drug buys/busts. To be determined, of course, is whether Beck as mayor would be able to force such a change on the Police Department.
Also of note: Jesse Lowe, the man behind the overhyped Drugs Brings Death campaign, appears to have taken sides in the mayoral campaign.
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One would think that a candidate who was sheriff for 16 years in this county would be careful about laying out a plan for cleaning up the city that involves better enforcement. In Dan’s mind, he was “in charge” of the local drug task force for his entire tenure as sheriff. How well did those ideas work then? Couldn’t one logically conclude that he was ineffective in his attempts to curb drug dealing for the last 16 years? Even if enforcement alone could solve the problem (which it cannot, in my view), why would we believe that Mr. Beck is the guy to get it done? I also take issue with his argument that the blight is caused by out of town landlords. Easy group to target. I agree that anyone who buys property in any community should be responsible for its upkeep–but it won’t be very popular when 92 year-old Mrs. McGillicutty is cited for property maintenance code violations because she can no longer afford to live in her home. Still waiting to hear a viable plan. Simply saying “more enforcement” is disingenuous at best. The funds aren’t there, and the results are anything but clear. We need a mayor who is more than a law enforcement officer.
In fairness, Mike, Dan did fight with LPD about how to use the task force, if they were going to work together. The argument over petty street busts (my term) or going bigger scale has been there for a while. I think it’s fair to question whether crime issues are in some part his fault, but on the drug issue, he was unable to have LPD go along with his way on busts.
Frankly, it’s easier to send out a lot of press releases when you’re busting street level sales every day. But they never go away.
Dan also previously said all administrators would spend 20 percent of their time on code enforcement. He is a cop, after all. Pardon my saying so, but there seems to be a mind-set that says put enough rules in place, then enforce them, and you will have bliss. Some would question whether this is a viable plan (do you really want the finance director or the street guy handing out property violation citations?) but he has laid out that plan.
And how are you going to confiscate funds from property owners other than through the legal means available? Lots of smoke here. Landlord registration on a periodic basis could prevent bad actors from continuing the business, but it is not all that difficult to form corporate entities and shift legal ownership without changing the true ownership. Can’t imagine the libertarian Lima News would go for landlord registration and more code enforcement regulations.
As for “as it seems” comment by Mr. Lederman regarding drug enforcement policy by LPD, suggest LPD be spefically be asked about that. . Seems obvious that one of the reasons for the multiple buys before an arrest warrant is issued is to identify the larger traffickers.
Yes, Steve, because the city administration so often runs things by the libertarian Lima News.
Uh huh on your drugs point. Wasn’t there a shooting where the guy they netted got sentenced to an entire seven years? So you think he’ll be out in what, three, four? Is that one of your big fish from multiple buys, Mr. Steve?
Not sure your drug buying experience Mr. Steve (and I hope you recognize that I am mocking you for calling me Mr. Lederman) but you can buy multiple times from someone without that someone being a trafficker. In fact, you would buy from most dealers multiple times. As in, I want to get high now, so I’ll buy. Later, I want to get high again, so I’ll buy again. See the trend?
No need to ask the PD. Garlock, Berger and others have sat in TLN defending the policy of going after low level while Beck has said go higher up. But, Steve, you’re acting like a typical blogger. Rather than arguing the policy Garlock has said LPD adheres to, you’re acting like, Oh, Ron doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I do. Perhaps you should ask Garlock what police policy is.
Now boys…..
The bottom line is that Beck says nothing new in this video. He states that there has been NO economic development in Lima??? Where has he been living? (Oh yeah - not in Lima - until he decided to run for mayor)!
As long as he continues to do nothing but bash Lima and talk about how unsafe it is, how our quality of life stinks and how we are keeping business away, he has NOTHING to say to me or most of Lima’s residents.
Beck is not qualified. He does not have the experience or education or savvy to run code enforcement department let alone the entire city!
With all due respect, Marian, you accuse Beck of offering nothing but criticism, then you delivered what?
Beck wouldn’t be running the code enforcement department. He would appoint someone to do that. This is what we call delegation.
But, let’s play the same game with you that we play with everyone: How about some specifics? Lima has had economic development? Really? Care to name it?
Gee Ron, I didn’t realize you has such a sensitive side. But back on topic which was the Beck video, the crime task force and Beck’s proposals. Since the task force work now has LPD and ASO working together jointly, does Beck propose to blow that cooperation up and under whose authority? I expect the Chief and the new Sheriff will be making the call on how they will be running not only the drug task force but also the new joint neighborhood patrols LPD and ASO are conducting along with all of their other law enforcement duties. Seems that Beck is running for sheriff and chief code enforcement officer of Metro Lima Allen County.
Regarding the task force issues, I have some knowledge and experience on this. After leaving local law enforcement to go to work for the state, I was the guy who worked administratively with the 27 grant-funded drug task forces all across Ohio. My observation, based upon my experience, is that the most successful task forces blend both street level, small drug buys and longer term investigations. There is a legitimate place for both inside a coherent drug enforcement strategy. That said, my issue with Beck’s plan is that he isn’t giving us anything that he hasn’t already had the chance to implement, nor is there anything in his plan that hasn’t been discussed and tried before relative to drug enforcement. Enforcement alone is not the answer. What I am hearing is a candidate who is versed in one aspect of governing–criminal justice (and he doesn’t have a good track record there)–and he virtually has no viable, articulated plan for anything else. His code enforcement/neighborhood cleanup plan is, again, based solely on increased enforcement. My argument is that enforcement alone will not work, whether it’s focused on drug enforcement or housing code violations. His idea to aggressively pursue those who owe back taxes and civil fines makes sense, but it’s not a new idea. I am not yet convinced that he has a viable plan to deal with the complexities of government intervention in private property rights. We will see what his next YouTube installment brings.
I have a quick question for the berger for mayor for life crowd. I keep hearing that beck has “noplan” and criticisms of his track record which may well all be justified. I also keep hearing berger for lifers say that he has experience and a “love of lima”. Again that may all be so, what I wonder is does berger (after twenty years) have any “plan”. Please tell me you are not ardently following him if the best he has in store is four more years of shrinking tax base, shrinking population, increased crime (per capita) and fewer jobs!! Surely with all that “experience” and “love” he has something better in mind!!
Steve, it’s cute how you Berger types assume any mention of the other guy’s plan is somehow an endorsement. As for blowing the cooperation, perhaps he does. Some people call that changing gears, changing direction, pick your saying. It usually happens going from one administration to the next.
And, Boomer, you typify the Beck backers. Questioned on specifics, you proceed to ask if Berger plans to continue hurting Lima? Gee, while I’m not a Berger backer, let me jump right in and say, yes, he sure does. And that is what Beck proposes, too, to hurt Lima. Neither candidate is actually proposing to do what he thinks is best for the city. In Berger’s case, he probably would argue that, while the city has lost residents and jobs, his policies have stemmed the flow.
We know you won’t be voting for Berger, Boomer. Can you now explain why any of us should vote for Beck? Without mentioning Berger, can you explain Beck’s qualities that have you sold on him? You might vote for him simply because of who he is not, but most others will want a little more than that.
Mike, thank you for providing an actual discussion. Pardon the sarcasm, as it’s directed at Steve and Boomer, but it’s nice to have an adult here to discuss/argue things with. I see your point regarding Beck and crime, but I think he would argue he was not able to fully implement his way on drugs in the city, where the majority of the action is. He stated (more than once) that he wanted the two drug units to work together to go higher up the food chain. He might be contradicting himself by pointing out the crime is still high, since he was sheriff, but then he could argue that it’s not as high as it could have been.
Point is, I don’t think the two arguments have to be exclusive of one another, but I don’t think they have to intertwined every time either. Dan can be critical of LPD and other things in the city without it being a reflection on his agency. Lima is only part of what was his jurisdiction, and thus he only had so many resources to devote to Lima’s problems. The agency whose sole focus is Lima bears a little more responsibility, in my mind anyway.
Ron I don’t have any idea what Beck would do because frankly, and contrary to your assumptions, I am not in any way associated with him or his campaign. As a matter of fact i haven’t even spoken to him in well over a year. I also am not “sold on him”. For a guy who jumps on everyone else for making assumptions, you sure do a lot of it. I am also a little surprised that you think most people will want more than “he is not berger” or “change” when they made a much more important decision based on just that just last Novemeber. Ron I would rather write in Ron Lederman for Mayor than see any more or berger’s “success”!! The destruction of an evil system is an act of love!!
Have I jumped on anyone for making assumptions, Boomer? I believe my criticism has been when people didn’t offer specifics. For example, you don’t like Berger, yet you still have yet to suggest what he has done that is so bad. Crime is up. Unemployment is up. The rest of us were blaming those things on a national recession. Will they be your specific criticisms of Berger? I don’t intend to beat up anyone for not liking either guy, but you surely can tell us specifically what one has done wrong.
As for my assumption that you are supporting Beck, there are two candidates on the November ballot. Writing in Ron Lederman would be sweet on your part, and I appreciate the support, but I don’t intend to register as a write-in (and we’ve heard of no one else who will) so it’s DB or DB. You consistently criticize Berger, so, yes, I assumed you would be supporting Beck.
Then again, that would assume you will be voting. Do you live in the city?
I think it’s a disgrace that Lima can’t find two qualified candidates to run for mayor. Berger should have been a man, and bowed out. He knows he doesn’t have the backing, and Beck doesn’t either. The votes they get will be what voters consider the lesser of two evils. Berger hasn’t always won on his merits, but on the lack of merits from his opponents. That says more for the sorry state of Lima politics than most anything else.
Ron–you make some good points, and I suppose there really is no definitive way for anyone not involved to discern the reality when it comes to the conflict between Beck and Berger/Garlock. But let me take one step back and make this point: Dan Beck’s leadership style is highly autocratic. I am not placing a value judgement on that, it’s just an observation. When an individual is highly autocratic, and also perceives that he has absolute authority on a matter, then it is incumbent upon that person to carry through with deliverables. If his assumption of absolute authority is flawed (e.g. he didn’t have exclusive jurisdiction in the City of Lima, but concurrent jurisdiction, therefore he couldn’t exclusively control the drug strategies being employed) a good leader would identify ways to work with others to achieve the desired outcome. As I see it, Dan’s “Achille’s heel” is that his fragile ego drives his need for power and control. Simply said, Dan cannot work collaboratively with others unless he is out in front, leading the way (and getting a lot of public attention) and calling the shots. There is no willingness to subordinate personal interests (self) for the good of the public or the greater good of the whole. What makes this problematic is that it leaves no room for diverse opinions, honest and candid debate, and precludes any opportunity for a group of people (in this case the task force board members) to come up with a better solution together than any one of them might be able to develop alone. Collateral damage includes increased unresolved tension among group members. When you have a bunch of alpha males in a room, nothing good results from continued unresolved tension. So, the relevant question is this: Can we expect Mayor Dan Beck to work collaboratively with those who disagree with him for the betterment of the community? I have seen nothing in my professional interactions with and personal observations of him that would cause me to believe he can engage in any kind of political interactions except those based upon power and control. (That explains why his entire “arsenal” of ideas for improving Lima revolve around increased enforcement–the absolute use of power). That destroys relationships quickly, and without solid relationships based upon some level of trust, it is difficult, if not impossible, to craft solutions to problems among a group of stakeholders with diverse interests and needs.
Ron, The Sheriff and the Chief of Police do not follow the dictates of the mayor or commissioners in carrying out their law enforcement duties. I’m sure that those two law enforcement officials will not long tolerate Beck saying he will be in charge of directing their duties. We shall see how long that takes. Certainly the media will be asking that question of them if they do not soon clarify the issue.
Expect them to correct Beck’s statement on the big bust small bust question also.
Thank you, Steve, for clarifying what I already wrote in the original post. Tell me if this sounds familiar: “To be determined, of course, is whether Beck as mayor would be able to force such a change on the Police Department.”
as for little bust, big bust, that argument has been going on for some time. You can look at the police records we run in the paper, if you like. There is plenty of evidence that LPD focuses on smaller level crime, and the chief and others in LPD have said as much. I guess you can try to change what they’ve said, but they have said it. I would think they’ll come out defending their tactics, not trying to redefine things as you are here.
Mike, I don’t disagree at all. I’ve made that point about Dan not being willing to work with others.
However, Dave also has a strain of that going. He likes to know what everyone is doing, and it’s pretty funny sometimes to see his reaction to other organizations where the head honcho doesn’t need to be consulted on every decision. I’m not Dave is plenty willing to bend, but his public persona doesn’t suggest it.
Dan likely would embarrass himself more than a few times along the way, but he did run a county department for 16 years. He also did manage to bully more than one set of commissioners into going his way on budgets (hence the Van Horn and King raises), so you can sub in a set of councilors who don’ often stand up to the mayor (hence the “Republicans on council, including John Nixon and Ray Magnus, ignoring property rights on signs).
The public perception is that the mayor is in charge of the police department. That is probably the media’s fault, as the media ask every politician about every issue (federal legislators and local schools, for example) but as is the case with the county commissioners, the budget can be used to somewhat control a police force over which the mayor does not have direct authority.
And, all that said, it’s not the endorsement of Dan that Steve thinks I’m giving. I think that despite those who so strongly oppose one candidate or the other, this race is pretty good in that you have two candidates who have shown they can run large organizations, both of whom have control issues and don’t like being told they’re wrong. I don’t think you’re likely to convince Beck supporters he’s incompetent anymore than Beck supporters will convince you that Berger has run the city into the ground. And in the middle of those two camps are probably 20 percent of voters who will think either could do the job but that both are flawed.
Good analysis, Ron. I think one thing that continually plagues Berger is the perception that he is hard to get along with. Personally I have not encountered that, but I have heard it repeated frequently. Regardless, I stand by my belief that when in public service and when in a position of leadership, it is critical that personal shortcomings and attributes be subordinated for the greater good. I just feel that Dave is more apt to do that than Dan. This is based upon my personal experience with each of these men, in my professional capacities at different times.
I continue to be intrigued by the fact that Dan and his campaign strategists don’t exploit a potential weakness with any incumbent: a long track record. Dan seems to be locked into only one part of what, logically, should be a two-part strategy: attack Berger as a failed mayor. The second part of the strategy should be to outline specific plans for change, so that you can rally supporters around your cause. Because Dan fails to do this (except for articulating the need for increased enforcement), he limits his support to people who 1) like him personally; or 2) will vote for him because they want to cast a vote against Berger. That is unfortunate, because it leaves the voter to make a choice based more upon who they like (or dislike), not based upon a set of strategies. Of course, I believe Dan doesn’t articulate a clear and specific set of strategies and initiatives because he doesn’t have any idea what to do, and because if he proposes anything specific he would have to defend his plan. I can’t envision him doing so in an intelligible way.
Mike; say what? Using Beck and the word [articulating] in the same sentence is an oxymoron if ever there was one.
As can readily be discerned by persons who look past the supposed “stage presence” of Dan Beck; he is all blow and no substance. He has an agenda and will do or say whatever is deemed to be fodder to fuel those ambitions. He has an ego the size of Mt. Rushmore and needs this to feed that ego.
Becks past 16 years in office and the extremely short list of his [positive] accomplishments certainly do not make him the catalyst for the revival of Lima. Beck is single faceted, with that facet being in law enforcement (and even that has come into question as of late).
He has readily proven that he can’t administrate effectively and certainly that he can’t be trusted; ask Sam Crish. When Beck realized Crish wouldn’t roll over and play dead or him, Beck turned on Crish and openly lied about Crish and changed camps to Hoverman.
And again; Berger has his little idiosyncracies (as do we all), but to believe for a nano second that Beck is the solution to Lima’s ills is to turn a blind eye to all his shenanigans over the past 16 years.
so did you attend the forum last night bubba…or are you just regurgitating talkin points?
Suntzu: what’s the point of your question to Bubba? It seems you are trying to diminish his opinion by inferring that he cannot think for himself, yet you don’t offer any intelligible point. Quite the paradox. And what does debate attendance have to do with anything Bubba posted?
come on maj blass…you certainly have to be tired of all the talking points…ego,blah blah blah,only a sheriff,blah blah blah…
blind claims like: “he has readily proven that he cant administrate effectivly”
you of all people would know that when the former sheriff was elected..he AND his team helped bring down gang violence and helped in lowering the crime rate at the time…you may not agree with tactics or mgt style but the job was getting done…
i asked if he attended the forum because of the many contrasts in the candidates that were brought out last night…
sun_tzu……..
Sorry so late, but please allow me to respond.
As far as your statement, “blind claims like: “he has readily proven that he can’t administrate effectively…..” Not a blind statement at all. I worked for Beck and was aware of Beck and some of his antics for many years prior to his being elected sheriff.
I attended one of Becks / Bergers debates and was quite less than mesmerized with Mr. Beck for a couple of reasons. After working for him, i have no reason to believe anything he says. But, trying to be somewhat objective, Beck was unprepared, many of the figures presented were outlandish and unresearched and he was extremely obvious when reading prepared answers; and his segways into prepared statements irrelevant to the question posed by the panel or audience was embarrassing.
Beck lacks the education, training, character and administrative ability to perform effectively as mayor. I’m not stumping for Berger, because i would concur in part that Lima is stagnant or worse. But, on a bad day Berger is still imminently more qualified to be mayor than Beck. Remember……………..chnage, just for the sake of change is not always a positive thing. Look at our national situation. Keep the change.
And……..as a side note; remember the screwing Beck tried to throw to Crish. Beck can’t be trusted when HIS agenda is challenged.
At last nites debate, Beck was way off base with his numbers as far as the number of officers working the drug unit. Having worked there at one time and still being in contact with people from both departments; the numbers he used just further illustrate how out of touch he really is (and obviously has been through his tenure as sheriff). I was in th drug unit before Beck was elected sheriff and after he was elected. At no time did the local body count of officers ever come close to 14.
His campaign is one of pandering to the cause of the week. He has nothing sustsainable.
Sun–OK, so you say I, of all people, would know that Beck helped bring down the gang violence and the crime rate? I never really saw anything that anyone could definitively say impacted the crime rate. I saw a lot show, but not a lot of go. His methodology is to talk a good game, but he doesn’t deliver. Yes, the SET team saturated neighborhoods with high visibility enforcement, but frankly, much of that was done long after we at LPD at already used the same tactic in Riverside North (1991-1992?) and learned (from the community members themselves) that what we thought was the best way to impact crime often wasn’t working and wasn’t meeting the needs of the law abiding citizenry. What many of us learned is that, as law enforcement officers and as a law enforcement agency, what you don’t do WITH a community, you do TO a community. So we worked to implement community policing to build relationships with the law abiding residents. That’s hard, arduous, and “messy” work at times. It isn’t easily quantifiable by traditional law enforcement methodology, so traditional law enforcers (and I was one of them early in my career) tend to undervalue it. It takes an atttention span longer than the length of one news cycle. It requires a tolerance for political risk. You know who stood behind us and faciliated our efforts? Dave Berger. I personally worked with him when I was at the sergeant’s level to research COP, to plan for it. He was never intrusive, he was always facilitative. So what did Dan Beck do once he was elected sheriff? He decided that he knew better than LPD how to impact crime in the city. He never attempted to collaborate with us–he told us what he was going to do and if we didn’t agree with his tactics, then WE weren’t being team players. The sad fact was, and remains, that Dan never reached any true understanding of COP. Instead, he basically made a big show of force with the SET team, and applied the same limited strategy that we tried several years earlier. When it didn’t yield any results except an increase in arrests, he wasn’t intellectually astute enough to rethink his strategy. Instead, the SET idea just faded away, because he had already taken from it what he wanted–the publicity. In Dan’s world, it’s all about power, ego, image and control. There isn’t anything else to him as a candidate. If there is, he’s making it the best kept secret in Lima. So, Sun, that’s what I know based upon my experience. I was there. I lived it. And I know that there is no chance that Dan Beck can collaborate with others, build relationships with those who may have different perspectives, and there certainly is no room for compromise. He sees that as weakness, and his fragile ego cannot withstand conceding anything. It’s too bad, but it is what it is. Sun, what you dismiss as talking points, or just someone’s opinion, belies the fact that you have nothing substantive to offer. It’s an irresponsible way to debate any topic. I suspect you could do better, if you chose to think it through and put some effort into your posts. Will you?
What Maj. Blass kindly omits from his dissertation is the fact that all too many of the arrests made by Becks SET were for tail lights, license plate lights, turn signals and anything they could, just to fudge statistics to show an increased arrest incidence. Very few of the arrests amounted to anything substantive. It was all about smoke and mirrors.
Anyone who has been in law enforcement long enough to know will tell you that Beck was and is a legend in his own mind. He couldn’t hold a candle to his predeccessor.
maj blass…i thank you for taking the time to spell things out for me…i know we have alot more in common than not and i was a big sheriff crish supporter and called then sheriff dan beck out for the way he dealt with the whole election…i even came closer than any of then major crishes supporters at predicting the percentage he would win by…that is why i have the full confidence that sheriff crish will continue to partner with the lima chief of police as well as the rest of law enforcement in our county to keep us safe regardless of whom our mayor might be in less than a month…
i also respect your knowledge and participation in c.o.p. program…a have a great deal of accumulated feedback on the program…almost all positive and know from personal experiance that the program was great success and also know that the mayor had alot to do with formation of the program…
that being said the whole debate over the chief of police and whom he answers to has been a big smokescreen by the incumbants campaign over comments taken out of context by another man i have a great deal of respect for who wasnt even at the neighborhood meeting where challenger beck made the comment that we needed to bring community policing back…
and i ask you to put as much thought into your replies as you expect from me…to look at this election unbiased would require you to take your feelings out of the equation and weigh what each man has said in this campaign and im not sure you can do that at this point since you have been stumping for the mayor on here for several months and he mentioned you in the forum last night…
bubba…the mayor AND challenger were a little off on the numbers in the drug unit…while i wont get into any manpower numbers since thats not a real good idea to broadcast…you know there are boots on the ground and support staff for every operation the challengers number was much closer than the mayors…
but the funny thing is the argument was a moot point…the comment made by challenger beck at the neighborhood assn meeting about c.o.p. officers being needed in the communitys again was taken out of context by people who werent there and the challenger said we dont even have to get them from the drug task force we could take any four officers that are good at neighborhood policing…you never state which debates you have been to because i have been to them all and many places where one or the other has spoke…hence my queston of weather you were there or not…no malice was intended…
sun_tzu: no offense taken. I recall blogging with you during the Sheriffs election and certainly respect your perspective. However, if my memory serves me, you weren’t too keen on Beck during that election.
The debate i attended reverts back to the initial one at the Civic Center. Taking into account working for Beck and attending that forum; i’d seen enough to know this leopard wasn’t changing his spots.
On a personal note, i have talked to Beck out of office and find he can be personable. I just know far too much about him and don’t like the way he does business. I guess you had to be there to get the full effect of his “lack of leadership” abilities.
We can certainly agree to disagree; but civility should be the standard.
Namaste
Mr. Blass, you certainly liked power, ego, image and control when you were cruising the streets several years ago as a LPD cop. YOu still have the tough hot head exterior attitude about you. Some things you say make sense but from past knowledge of you and your hot temper, I don’t put to much stock in what you say. Most Cops do have ego heads and love power or they would not be bully like! So Dan Beck is just being like you somewhat, however he has mellowed and deserves a chance since he is willing to put himself out there to do a job I don’t see you willing to do! Berger needs to go as he has been in toooooo long!
goddmann2: apparently you never heard the old adage, “”Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth andf remove all doubt”.
Your characterization of [most] cops is way off the mark. You may or may not know Mike blass, but you are wrong either way. Mike was (and perhaps may still be) a little hard headed, but he was a good cop.
You can regurgitate all the crap you want, but that doesn’t make you right.
Most cops get in the business because they would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem. What you refer to as “ego heads”, power trips and [bully like] goes with the territory. If you are unsure of yourself, being a cop is not your vocation. You profess to know so much and apparently know so little.
As far as Beck mellowing………….has that taken place since his little campaign of lies and distortions where he tried to tar and feather Crish during the election?
As i’ve said before, I don’t really dislike Dan; but i certainly cannot rally behind the way he conducts business. Apparently neither could 68% of the voting public during the Sheriffs election.
bubba said: “We can certainly agree to disagree; but civility should be the standard.”
agreed…peace
Goodmann: perhaps you are correct, as I think I was a much different person at 19 (the age I started in law enforcement) than I am today at 51. I certainly don’t claim to be perfect, but when I made mistakes I tried to make it right and then move on. I certainly don’t have a problem being candid, as I think government, business, and probably even personal interactions would be well served if more people actually said what they thought, while maintaining respect for the person they are speaking to or about, instead of trying to be politically correct or socially polite. I also am more than willing to change my mind, but it won’t be because someone attacks me personally. I believe that through honest debate one can learn new things about the world and about self. I like to think I pick my battles, and don’t unnecessarily offend people just to hear myself talk. Give me something to think about, and I will think about it. I value what others have to say when there is something relevant and substantive to consider. All that said, my public service career is what it is. I did my best. The bigger issue, though, is this: I’m not a candidate for public office. If I ever choose to run for office, I expect to be criticized, dissected, and evaluated by those who are to determine if I am to get their vote. That’s all that we are doing here in this debate about the mayor’s race. It isn’t about me–it’s about the candidates who have willingly put themselves into the spotlight. It is my belief that, as Sun and Bubba have both said in one way or another, that we can debate the issues without attacking each other. It’s much more productive.
Sun–while it is good that Beck is talking about getting COP back into the neighborhoods, I just question what his version of COP looks like and whether he will actually do it. My personal feeling is that COP got shoved on the back burner several years ago and I don’t think it was necessary to do that–but I could be wrong about that since I am on the outside looking in. I still believe that COP has great (and largely unrealized) potential if it is implemented in its truest form. But part of the deal with COP is that the community may have to decide what they are willing to sacrifice in order to get something else that they really value. I really don’t see anybody willing to take that on, from where I sit (and again, I have a limited viewpoint at this stage). And again I would reiterate this point–the mayor has to have more knowledge, skills, and abilities to deal with issues beyond law enforcement. I just don’t see it with Beck.
Bubba: me? hardheaded? what would ever give you that impression? You know, a man can only mature and grow so much…and then there is the genetic imprint. Don’t know who you are, but apparently you do know me.
Mike B: think back to the Square Fair when you and Crish were standing on the corner of Main and High Sts. Someone walked up behind Crish and gave him a bit of a [start]. Do you recall me telling Crish, “Relax, i got your back”?
Does that ring a bell. If it does; then you now know who i am. I can be a little hard headed myself; ya’ know?
Myself; i don’t have a problem with people callin’ ‘em like they see ‘em.
maj blass…c.o.p. in some form is critical in my opinion to cleaning up some of the issues we have…i can see how with a strong chief of staff that has an ear to the ground, good communication and strong problem solving skills could help bring about some needed discussion and facilitate the implementation of some needed changes that might be held up by long standing feuds between old rivals…do you think this is a valid viewpoint?
bubba…did you have a different screen name during sheriffs race?
sun-tzu: you are wise for your years. Does the name Crusty ring a bell?
i was wonderin bubba…if i was truly wise i would have guessed it…lol
Sun: I agree that COP can have significant impact and is probably the only thing government can do that can singlehandedly (so to speak) accomplish the following: 1) enhance the perception of safety in neighborhoods; 2) improve police-community relations; and 3) over time, with a little luck, decrease crime. (The tricky thing about improved police-community relations, though, is that reported crime usually initially increases as more law abiding citizens are willing to report suspicious activity, and are more trusting of the police). The dirty little secret, in my view, that too many LE executives and the politicians all across this country fail to discuss is the fact that we really don’ t know how much actual crime there is in any given community. Homicides are probably the most accurately reported or known crimes, since it’s hard to hide a body or conceal the fact that someone is missing. Everyone wants to take credit for crime going down, but few step up and take responsibility when it increases. Regarding your point about a strong chief of staff: my take on that statement by Beck is that he is pandering to the minority community to get their support, the implication being that he will appoint a minority to the position. And yes, I agree a strong chief of staff who is truly aware of what is going on in the entire community is an asset to any officeholder, but, as I have said before, I don’t think that Dan can tolerate anyone working for him that will say anything that he doesn’t want to hear. Dan needs “yes men” around him. That’s his biggest weakness.If I am right about that, then you can expect a person in the chief of staff position who will be a figure-head in a Beck administration. Dan will call the shots (or try to). Regarding needed changes: I think the community needs to drive the change, if change is to occur. Regardless who is sitting in the mayor’s chair the financial reality is that the citizenry must decide what they are willing to give up in exchange for what they want done differently. To date, I think the neighborhood associations, for example, have relegated the setting of priorities to the police department leadership. I also believe that the citizens who advocate for change must then advocate for the police department (give political cover) when response policies are changed and controversy arises (and it will). FInal point: If Dan Beck is elected mayor, I cannot imagine that Chief Garlock would stay (I don’ t have any inside information–just supposition on my part). I don’t see the conflict between Beck and Garlock being mediated by anyone, as mediation implies compromise or collaboration and I don’t see that happening for the reasons I’ve already stated.
Bubba: you got me. I’m stumped. No short term memory left…
Bubba: got it! Now I can go to bed…
maj blass…i would hope that regardless of who wins on nov 3rd that you and your fellow retired lawmen would help champion the cause for c.o.p. we all know it was effective and there has been alot of changes in the neighborhood associations in the last 18 months where im sure you would find alot of support…have a great day! Sun
Since TLN chose to bilk its readers/contributors for its online content, I.ve avoided this site for the most part choosing instead to read any of the hundreds of newspapers which remain gratis online. That being said, I’m a late comer to this topic but I have a little insider information regarding Mr. Beck and his wanton inability to target higher level drug dealers. Lima’s drug problem broke in the late 80’s when crack made its way here. Street gangs soon followed with the intent to gain control of crack distribution. Several distinct criminal organizations were operating in Lima including, Bloods, Crips, Gangsters Disciples and others. The city, having never faced such problems and believing that these were not real gangs failed to address the problem during its infancy. Mayor Berger even met with Tony Barnett (ad hoc leader of the Crips Street Gang) during the highly publicized “Meeting at the Tracks” on E. Vine St. Where he was assured (and apparently believed) through Barnett’s dialog that his subversive organization does not engage in criminal activity. The City of Lima was not the only Midwestern city facing gang problems and not treating them as such as there was no local knowledge available on how exactly to respond to gang activity. Drug dealing and it’s associated street crime went bananas here for years. Enter the year 1997 and a new FBI Agent to the Lima area. The agent having served in larger cities before coming to Lima immediately recognized the problem and how to address it. The agent approached then Sheriff Beck on three occasions asking the High Sheriff to work cooperatively with the FBI to curtail Lima’s gang/drug issues. After all, the Sheriff’s Office had the resources, (personnel in the Drug Unit, associated technology, knowledge of the streets and local dealers/gang members). The LPD at that time did not have it’s own drug unit nor much in the way of necessary electronic equipment. Sheriff Beck dismissed the FBI Agent and his requests to utilize Drug Unit personnel etc for this sure to be long term investigation. Beck indicated his men were too busy with day to day activities to commit to this investigation. In hind sight, we all now know that Beck does not play well with others and will not participate in anything he cannot put his name on as “Director”. The FBI Agent, still desiring to find local assistance for this local problem approached Chief Garlock who welcomed the FBI with open arms. Garlock assigned his Community Oriented Police Officers (around 7 at the time) to assist the FBI with the investigation. These officers took the bull by the horns, identifying gang members and leaders, researching offenses committed by known members, procuring “Snitches” from within gang membership, covertly buying drugs weapons and other contraband from gang members and much more. Additional FBI Agents were assigned to assist local officials from Toledo and Cleveland, IRS Agents, Ohio BCI Agents, BATF Agents, a Federal Prosecutor, but still no Dan Beck or any of his charges. The investigation drug on for some 18 months. In 1999 the case wrapped up with dozens of State and Federal indictments being issued on dozens of Bloods leaders and members in the Lima area. On “take down” day, Beck was livid, he wasn’t invited to participate (or lead) the operation (a missed opportunity in the press no doubt). The operation went off without a hitch. Everyone in custody and many still in prison. The operation effectively dismantled the Bloods street gang in Lima. Within a few months the same officials targeted the Crips Street Gang. By this time Beck was so miffed with the feds, Garlock, Berger and others that once again he chose not to participate. Another lengthy investigation with lucrative results. In short these two investigations effective eliminated these street gangs from Lima’s streets. Within months, the FBI shifted it’s Organized Crime Task Forces to Joint Terrorism Task Forces in response to the September 11th tragedy. A few things were learned as a result of these investigations. First and foremost the city formed it’s own team, PACE, to investigate drug/gang/vice problems as they arise, as Beck is of zero help unless he can exclusively direct the operations. It was also learned that a lot of resources are necessary to target higher level dealers. They routinely travel all over the country obtaining/distributing drugs. Agencies/Agents with jurisdiction in the entire US are needed to effectively investigate these cases. Lastly and perhaps most importantly, law enforcement learned that these higher level drug dealers are often times smarter than they are given credit for. These guys know that their potential for prison time is directly related to the amount of dope they traffic or are caught in possession of. Lima Police and ACSO Deputies have successfully arrested some of the highest level dealers Lima has to offer. Just because they were not caught in possession of kilos of dope does not mean they are not responsible for its importation and distribution. The “high level” guys got where they are by not handling “high levels”
Santarrow Russell was the local leader of the Bloods gang in Lima in the mid ninties and was absolutely known to have distributed 4 kilos of crack in Lima and was suspected of distributing much more, yet when he was arrested, he had just enough marijuana in his house to roll a joint and no crack. Lima’s law enforcement know who the major players are and are doing everything possible with their resources to bring them down. Don’t base your opinions on news releases. There are a lot of things happening every day you will never know anything about. As for Bergers bid for re-election, I’m 96.
Sun: my view of COP hasn’t waivered, and won’t. I don’t know that my views are shared by others in the field of policing. I think to implement COP in a meaningful way requires some pretty significant change within law enforcement and within the community. My experience tells me that few are willing to take the risks (or perceived risks) necessary to embrace and implement such change. Funny, I just saw something on one of the TV news channels about a “new” program (nationally) called “I report” or something like that. It’s basically a “system” for citizens to use to report suspicious activity relating to terrorism. Chief Bratton of LAPD spoke about the need for citizens to be the “eyes and ears” of LE. While I think it’s important for citizens to report, that’s the same thing we were telling people in the 1970s. COP was supposed to allow community involvement to evolve into a partnership with the police. Truth be told, very little of COP is practiced consistently today in most communities. I don’t know what the prognosis is…thanks for your comments.
96: As far as high profile drug cases, there were more done under the Harrod regime than under Beck.
The major difference; Harrod didn’t feel a need for a photo op every time a significant bust was orchestrated and successfully prosecuted.
Thats not saying the “DEA” boys aren’t doing good work now, because they are. I don’t mean in any way, shape or form to take that from them.
Little known situation, but exemplifies Mr. Becks love affair with the camera.
Always for years, the sheriffs department employees would pick one or two families before Christmas time and sponsor them. Employees donated money and goods as well as solicited local businesses for assistance. The businesses responded at a level to exceed our expectations. This worked well under Harrod as long as he remained in office. Harrod just left us alone and took no credit for anything. When Beck was elected, the Christmas effort continued but only for a year or two. Then it stopped; and the catalyst for doing so was on the projected delivery date to the sponsored families of the goods and monies collected……………………..Mr. Beck (who had nothing in it) wanted to know where and what time so he could be there for the camera. He was told “NO” as these people (the recipients) neither request nor require such publicity. That gesture took the spirit out of it and the project was discontinued. We had businesses donating furniture, clothes, groceries and most anyhting we knew the sponsored families needed. And now, nothing because the thrill and the spirit was decimated by a photo op.
Sorry………..i rant; therefore, i am.
Greetings Mike. Glad you remembered so you could get some rest.
Agreed Bubba,
Yes the Task Force guys did seem to engage in a greater number of high profile operations with Charlie at the helm. I also agree the guys assigned to the unit are doing a great job. No contempt for them at all. Finally, I had no idea the SO sponsored families during the holiday, What a great gesture. Too bad it had to end particularly for the reason it did.
Bubba, Both the current candidates for Mayor of Lima have an unbelievably long and devoted love affair with all things publicity!! That is no reason to give up a good worthy cause. There is a new sheriff in town, hopefully the guys (and gals) of the S.O. will bring back a good thing.
Boomer and 96:
Beck came into office as sheriff with the “divide and conquer” mentality. He proved that many times over. Under Harrod, employees actually socialized with each other at different venues, off duty. Since i can see this one coming from someone, i’ll respond to it now. NO, the aforementioned venues were not all or necessarily alcohol related. That being said, there was a very clear comaraderie among people and most actually enjoyed coming to work. It didn’t take Beck long to destroy that. In short order, nobody trusted anybody and most everyone (with a few obvious exceptions) just went their own way after work. The air was so thick you could cut it. Consequently, it was tough to get enough people involved in any positive effort. As i reread that, it looks overstated, but i assure you its not.
However, on the occasions when i go to the ACSO to visit these days, the general mood is so much elevated. The only real damper now is the budget and lay offs. But, i think people are coming along and it is conceiveable that the Christmas project could be revived.
Wishing you both well and have a teriffic evening.
Bubba,
Serious question regarding your last: How does the camaraderie among SO employees affect the public? I ask because I’m not sure it matters. They’re all (or mostly) professionals, so they needn’t be buds to patrol or whatever. I realize you can argue bad moods among cops leads to whatever, but that argument goes to the extreme.
I realize the question might be better directed at earlier posters, but yours is the most recent one, so I thought I’d throw it at you. Anyone else, please jump in.
In any business, really knowing your workmates and being able to trust them makes for more effective partnerships and a more productive and respectful work environment. I would think that a reasonably close friendship with one’s workmates, especially when you get to where you can “read” what they’re going to do, even in stressful situations, would be even more important when lives are at stake.
Just my 2 cents. Here’s your change.
LOL@Bubba - “i rant; therefore, i am.”